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Where is the Coast Guard at this Water Festival? Not in the river. Unfortunately, when the Coast Guard is not here to control the local authorities(DNR, BCSD, Beaufort City) out on the water, they become power induced idiots. Two personally witnessed incidents made that very clear to me yesterday. #1. --- a guy in a canoe who had a few beers probably a little buzzed, not acting crazy and irresponsible, just paddling along was a stopped by DNR without justification and arrested for BUI. Who exactly was he going to hurt with a canoe and a paddle. was not visibly intoxicated. was not acting irresponsible nor acting stupid. #2. --- I went out yesterday on a friends boat. phone was acting up and had to go to bathroom, pulled up to day dock downtown, i was driving as designated driver, not to experienced at pulling up to dock with other boats around, friend took over for the last 15 or 20 feet, he had a few beers that day, arrested for BUI. Don't get me wrong if you are out there drinking you should use good judgement and not be driving but #1 a canoewith a paddle is not dangerous and a little bit of self judgement seeing the man was not overly intoxicated and not causing a problem should have recieved a warning and told not to be in control of canoe and left at that. #2 just purely rediculous no reason to even question us as far as im concerned that would be unlawful search and seisure. no one in our boat did anything wrong that wouyld have been visibe to DNR. guy had a few beers but was not driving eratically or recklessly. the only thing anyone in our boat did wrong was drive the boat 15 to 20 feet after drinking a few beers. also should have been warned not to be driving as we did have a designated driver anyway. I think it is a bit rediculous.
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How do you know the authorities didn't see either of the people drinking? The law enforcement officers were doing their jobs. You ask " Who exactly was he going to hurt with a canoe and a paddle." Maybe it wasn't about who HE was going to hurt. Maybe it was about him paddling out in front of motorboats and HIM possibly getting hurt. How can you be the DD if you can't pull up to a dock or load the boat @ the landing? The DD should be in control from start to finish. Are you saying it's ok to drink and drive so long as the person isn't driving erraticlly?
he hadnt drank a beer in about a half an hour and the dnr guys who decided to come and investigate were docked at the day dock and did not see us till we got there. so unless they have super human eyesight to see 1/2 mile away 30 minutes before, they never saw him drinking. no i dont think it is ok to drive drunk. but i do think that a little discression and a hey look i understand the reason but you cant do it and maybe a little bit of inconvenience could have been enough. it also goes back to resonable suspicion. they had NONE! How many drunks were out there later that evening driving their boats around like idiots. probably many. Haven't you ever been given a warning? there are reasons for it. and i think this situation fit that reason. i think they went overboard. oh and by the way some fellow LOCAL dnr told us the other dnr guys were out of charleston and had stated on a couple of occasions they didn't have to come back here they just had to write tickets. sound like upstanding officers of the law to you? sounds to me they were just out to mess with people for the fun of it and write a few tickets while they were at it. lets see they searched the boat front front to back which ok sure but they also went through every bag, wallet, most of which belonged to people who were not aboard at the time and kept asking me what was in them. how the hell should i know. i had already showed him what was mine. as for the rest sorry but i didnt rumage through the other peoples stuff. then when i came back from the restroom with my husband, the guy who searched the boat and knew i was riding on the guys boat passed us and didnt have the courtesy to say hey we are arresting this guy. we had to find out from other boaters at the dock. and oh yeh im 7 months pregnant. were they just going to leave me there wondering? such nice guys.
The DNR guys, NUMEROUS undercover officers and who knows what else were ALL over the river. There were law enforcemnt "spotters" who were taking down boat numbers and describing persons drinking, etc. The officers at the day dock had all that info before the boat touched the day dock.
Do you know how many alcohol related incidents these guys have to deal with on a regular basis? Do you have any idea the number of injuries, etc., that take place during WF due to alcohol? How about the big fights on the sandbar..nearly had a riot a few years ago..think alcohol was involved? BUI is against the law, they were doing their jobs - doesn't matter if it was WF.
"...coupla beers"..never heard that line before.
and the guy in the canoe ..wasn't the guy who was in the "Ganoe" - powered by a small motor was it? he got mouthy, lied to an officer about a couple of things and they hooked him up...spent the night in jail....well known guy around town,too.
any time you are accused of a crime = step #1 is to read what you were cited for.
Were you stopped for blowing a traffic light and cited for unsafe lane change?
What was he arrested for? Like others have said the WATERS are federal, but state boating laws apply to the boaters. The charges will be spelled out either in the citation or in an information. He was under NO requirement to 1) cooperate 2) consent to 'tests,' or 3) consent to a breathalyser. This is boating - not driving. They use the public's ignorance against them all the time. Once again - proof. How do they prove he was drunk if he refuses to cooperate? no video, no audio, no tests, no breath. Cops word against his. And yours. Would probably get a nolle proseque.
As for searching - they ASKED before they started, right?. All you needed to do was tell them no, you cannot search. At that point they probable cause to search concealed areas. Passengers have the right now to object to a search. If they did not ask, anything they found which was not in plain view would not be admissible in any further prosecution. They cannot just come on your boat and start searching. Especially if the offense is drunk boating and the drunk is off the boat.
The law is clear on that one. You can search incident to arrest. But, if the person is on the dock, off the boat, and under arrest, when the search commences, it is an illegal search. The doctrine underlying the search is to protect the officers. If the boat [vehicle/airplane/etc] is no longer under the control of the arrestee and the boat/vehicle/airplane does not need to be impounded [which in this case it did not since you could operate it with permission] then the underlying basis for the search is no longer there.
Thats why BEFORE you get arrested, cops ask to search. If you say no, they then need to decide. If they place you under arrest, and you are cuffed, you are no longer a threat and if there is someone to drive the vehicle - then there is no need to impound it - and no need to search any longer. If and when an officer asks for consent - ask him why. Get him/her to state their particularized suspicion = use that word and they'll know you are either a lawyer or a convict! I have always enjoyed officers testifying about 'smelling' in a vehicle that is a convertible. Anyway, if you ask, they have to tell you. If they refuse, it later casts doubt on what their suspicion to search was.
The whole event smacks of heavy handed law enforcement. The way to deal with it is to keep your mouth SHUT. Say no to ANY request to look anywhere. Be polite but firm. You do NOT have to cooperate. When police act like this - they destroy all the trust and cooperation they then need later to solve actual crimes against persons and significant crimes against property. Most lawabiding citizens only interaction with cops is negative - and for minor things like traffic stops. Ironically one of hte most dangerous things a cop does- a traffic stop - is where the average citizen wants to cooperate and they act like automatons cause they have to for their own safety.
In my life I admit I am a butthead when it comes to police stops and interrogation. I am polite but firm in my rights. I refuse to speak to them if they are asking me about a crime/infraction I have committed. [in my personal life, it is 100% traffic stops] I routinely refuse searches and ask them for their stated suspicion. I take down in a little book in my car dates, times, officer names and badge numbers. When at a DUI stop I refuse to answer questions. They have their job to do and I have my rights. Once in while somebody needs to dust them off and exercise them.
When police are conducting an investigation about something else, I cooperate fully. If they are looking for a lost child, or a criminal, I will help them as best I can.
the fighting and the riots on the sandbar. been there both weekends of the water festival for the last 7 years. 3 out of every 4 fight i have seen or heard of were started by...(drum roll) our local fire department. woohoo bet they didnt get arrested matter of fact i know they didnt at least not that day. nope guy in canoe was using a paddle. and them dnr folks must be smarter than anyone else in the world. because if people were writing down boat number and descriptions of people who were drinking on the sandbar then that list was a couple thousand people long. probably 95 percent of the people on the sand bar were drinking and a couple hundred boats with a couple people on each one. i'd love to know how you can explain their ability to remember all that. not possible. yeh they wrote it down. how long do you think it would take to look through those notes find the boat number then match up the description? more than 30 or so seconds it took them to decide to come harass us. sorry but using your theory #1 the likelyhood of being falsely reported or detained is way high, and if they could somehow pull that off more than half those people driving boats would be in jail. i'm not saying get in your boat get drunk an drive around, it's ok. however i dont think any action warranted being investigated in the first place, and you dont have to give every ticket and arrest you can. its called lienancy(spelling?)every situation is different and should be handled that way.if it were not ever used, every one of us would have some kind of record. the warning you got instead of the speeding ticket. the fight your nephew got in but didnt go to jail because of the situation. how about the red light you ran on accident but the cops didnt see you?there are good decent cops out there. but there are some who get off knowing they have a badge and a gun. which by my observance is exactly what the arresting dnr officers were.
I dunno about 3 out of 4...same FF went after another FF in the squad bay...something about a wife...got fired went to another FF position, got in a fight over same thing...got fired...all of that was prob the same guy. and YES there was a list going, WF people were all aware of it. So if a cop writes you a ticket, he's not a good decent cop?
the same reason why sharks never bite lawyers.
why lawyers and whores get along so well.
and have no idea what incident you are talking about. im talking about on the sandbar every year at wf. you just want to be argumentative. i said use a little judgement based on situation and if it warrants arrest or ticket then by all means, however if it is not serious and the person doesnt have a dmv record or criminal record and the incident was harmless or unintentional then a warning and maybe a little lecture would suffice. and i guess you were one of the little undercover guys taking names and numbers. one day this is going to cause a problem and DNR, BCSD, or BPD is going to get sued. relying on that kind of information in those conditions is extremely dangerous. tell me how would you be able to tell the difference betwwen a busch beer can and a pepsi can in a kuzzi? you couldn't and if you say you could you are lying.
The DNR guys, NUMEROUS undercover officers and who knows what else were ALL over the river. There were law enforcemnt "spotters" who were taking down boat numbers and describing persons drinking, etc. The officers at the day dock had all that info before the boat touched the day dock.
Do you know how many alcohol related incidents these guys have to deal with on a regular basis? Do you have any idea the number of injuries, etc., that take place during WF due to alcohol? How about the big fights on the sandbar..nearly had a riot a few years ago..think alcohol was involved? BUI is against the law, they were doing their jobs - doesn't matter if it was WF.
"...coupla beers"..never heard that line before.
and the guy in the canoe ..wasn't the guy who was in the "Ganoe" - powered by a small motor was it? he got mouthy, lied to an officer about a couple of things and they hooked him up...spent the night in jail....well known guy around town,too.
From what I'm reading this week our Water Festival is becoming just a big chug-a-lug party.
It seems like the MulletMarshals from Charleston have a Wyatt Earp Syndrome while employing their devious skills at pestering the public. They think they are really somebody out there with all the power of God to use against people having too much fun. It wasn't too long ago a bunch of them were smuggling drugs and nighthunting. Not to mention the great SLED Doveshoot over bait by Beaufort. Then they wonder why people dont like them and could care less about them. Have a nice day or I'll arrest ya. Some more down South Moronic thoughtpatterns.
Now to get back on the Firefighters. They have a tough demanding job and risk their lives more than pulling over cars that leave their directionals on. They choose to go to the local sanbar to relieve their tension and amongst themselves. Firefighters help people and your Cowboys down there are doing their best to be robocops. Maybe they'll grow another 2 inches somewhere as a result...Have a nice night. Glad I'm up here working on the FD. Another reason. Why don't some of you teatotalers carry them some sandwiches or some coolade. Be sure to see Hillary for the demise of our soverign Nation."I did vote but...no I didn't mean to..!!" Can't you just change your mind on the Foreign Policies? LOL
i did not say i could not trailer a boat. where did you get that and i can dock a boat just was not familiar with downtown daydock and got a little nervous. next time ill just pull on in and hopefully your boat is not there just in case i do hit one instead of letting the guy who is familliar get it positioned and pull it in safely as he did before.
about people hurting themselves then about 6 or 7 hundred people should have been arrested. they were circling the sandbar like sharks everybody(almost) was drinking. every DNR, BCSD, BCP out there could have met their quota for the year!
In your case - all you need to do is go to the trial and testify that YOU were in command of the boat and that YOU asked him for assistance in understanding how to dock his boat. You remained in command of the vessel. At that point DNR needs to refute that with facts - can they?
Next- what was the probable cause to stop you and test him?
If i've told people once I have told them 1000 times:
a) once any law enforcement official starts asking questions - shut up. They believe a crime has been committed and they are investigating.
b) you are not required to answer any questions.
c) you are NOT required to take a field sobriety test EVER and I have NEVER heard of implied consent law to operate a boat in SC and if you refuse - what can they do? You do not need a license to operate a boat so there is not alot they can do to you.
d) that being said - alcohol and motorized anything do not mix.
I totally agree. I think that the intent of both DUI and BUI laws is too curb those suffering from "diminished capacity" from operating vehicles and vessels, and thus prevent harm to themselves or others. If no erratic or irresponsible behavior is demonstrated, probably cause does not exist, and the "stop" is illegal. In answer to an earlier comment, drinking on a vessel is not illegal, therefore that does not constitute probable cause either. The state and local authorities act as "traffic cops" on our rivers, the Coast Guard has a much larger purpose and must leave such matters to those who currently do the job. Also consider that our rivers are State owned and the Coast Guard is Federal. I think that the authorities who do cover our rivers have the best of intentions, I also think that sometimes they are a bit overzealous. Water Festival is a busy time in the river, and there is a lot of alcohol involved, so it is easy to understand that anyone policing the rivers could be more cautious than usual. They have a huge responsibility to keep our waters safe (no easy job), but they should still operate within an equitable set of standards and guidelines in accordance with the prevailing laws. The rules don't change simply because it is the time of year when it is our custom to sanction an annual 11 day aquatic beer party. Enforce the rules, just don't alter or exaggerate them.
"In answer to an earlier comment, drinking on a vessel is not illegal, therefore that does not constitute probable cause either."
You are correct.. However, when they take control of the vessel ( as was said) after drinking, is that not PC enough?
I'm willing to bet there is more to this story than we're being told.
i left nothing out. so you would lose that bet.
the beaufort river area located in the downtown area is not state waters. It is part of the intercoastal waterway which makes it federal. which is why when beaufort city tried to confiscate the moorings off the downtown marine they were stopped by the federal government because the state does not have ultimate jurisdiction.